Peace in Libya Possible

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110413/ap_on_go_ot/uc_us_libya

It will take courage for the Obama Administration to admit error.  This writer does not think that the President has it in him.  But there is always hope.

The war in Libya can be stopped.  How?  Obama just needs to order it to be stopped.  It really is that simple.  Since the US Congress has been diverted onto the Budget issues, Obama has been given a pass on the illegality of the continued war, and he has been given a free hand in continuing the war.  That is really bad, and a shame.  But there is a war and we need to face it.  Secondly, a lot of innocent civilians ARE being killed by NATO and USA aggression.  Thirdly, a lot of loyal Libyan government troops are being slaughtered by A-10 American anti personnel Gattling guns.  Fourthly, enormous destruction of the buildings, infrastructure and operational government of Libya has been caused by “sightless” bombing of NATO and USA.  Come on folks!  We all know that humanitarian aid is not delivered by Cruise missiles.

The French and The British tried to fool the USA into thinking that Libya was in a state of civil war against Gaddafi.  They further tried to topple the Libyan government by using the ruse of humanitarian support for beleaguered civilians.  The early days of UN sanctioned support have given way to lesser USA support and a worldwide rejection of the British and French lies.  The Libyan people were not in general uprising against their government.  The rebel army was a motley crew of ragtag insurrectionists, disgruntled former army officers, and Al Qaida operatives. The Libya government was not crumbling under the leadership of a maniacal dictator and the army of Libya remained loyal to the government.  Therefore, the Brits and the French want to INCREASE ground attacks against Libyan Army personnel and equipment in order thereby to topple the government, cripple Libyan domestic organization, create general hardship and disruption of security and to install an unknown, untried, and disorganized array of anti Gaddafi leaders, all of whom had previously fled the nation and were living comfortably in France and Britain while the good people of Libya tried to cooperate with the government and through processes of consistent and loyal opposition to the regime gain concessions and internal improvements to the lives of the ordinary Libyan citizen.  These efforts were recognized by both the Bush (43) and Obama administrations who sent high level diplomats to Tripoli and by a process of identifying past wrongs, (Lockerbie) the payment and the acceptance of the money payments as restitution for Lockerbie, and pledges of greater cooperation with the West and promises of increased democratic freedoms in Libya, they achieved significant progress toward promises of  measured democratic freedom in Libya. Now, by a process of criminal aggression, the Western European Nations, backed by a naive and inexperienced President, have destroyed not only all improvement, but because of their own diabolical attempt at a new capitalist colonial imperialism in Libya, have ignited fears throughout the region that they will attack other nations and destroy them as well.  President Obama is right to stay in a support role and should be bolder.  He should withdraw support for attacks against Libyan government forces because it is obvious that the general population is not in rebellion against the government.  Secondly, President Obama should respond through formal diplomatic channels to the Libyan government. He should assure them of  public and formal and not back channel diplomatic engagement.   Thirdly, the President should repudiate the “Gaddafi must go” statement and give assurances that the USA is not a party to regime change imposed by aggressive former colonial and imperialist nations. The USA should show sincerity by the  withdrawal of all special forces personnel, trainers of the rebels, secret CIA agents, and clandestine USA fighters from Libya.  Fourthly, embassy should be made to the Tripoli government with promises that build on the three points above, to include money payments by US oil interests for the rebuilding of the destroyed security and infrastructure of Libya in return for free and fair access to Libyan oil deposits.  In return, the Libyan government will agree to a gradual, guaranteed, long term process of democratization of Libya in cooperation with USA ambassadorial presence. The future efforts will be overseen by joint commissions of Libyan government and American diplomatic personnel.  This bold and courageous action by the Obama administration is imperative, if we are to stop being international terrorists ourselves.

UN Refers to Gaddafi as “Government”

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110418/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_libya

The above article is a simple and clear indication that the Western powers are liars and the UN is also duplicitous.  The article clearly states that the negotiations over humanitarian aid were with the Libyan “Government”.  That means the legitimate government ( dictatorship or otherwise) of the sovereign Nation of Libya.  As stated in this blog repeatedly, the UN was duped by the Obama administration and the Obama Administration was duped by the French colonialists and the British Imperialists.  The illegal criminal aggression against Libya should be halted immediately.  The rebel army officers and other disgruntled individuals should be told that they are on their own and arrangement made with the Gaddafi government for a restoration of peace and international harmony.  In fact, I outlined these procedures in another article.  Today I would add that because the NATO forces attacked the legal army, navy and air forces of Libya, they should be charged with war crimes at the Hague based on the Geneva conventions and the Nuremberg trials of WWII. If that will not be done, then the NATO countries, especially France and England should be charged for the carnage and forced to pay a whopping sum of money to the Libyan people to be administered by the Libyan government under UN oversight.  The people of Libya have suffered terribly because of the stupid war started by Sarkosy, Cameron, and Obama.

Christian Church Radio

As we develop outreach into our communities, we have also launched an Internet Radio Station.  Right now, the station plays Classical Music, 24/7.  The recordings are in our private sollection and are comprised of the most loved and famous classical pieces.  Since they are the most loved and popular, it is our hope that everybody will enjoy them.  This is not the very slow and sometimes tedious music but the popular, medlodic and exciting music of the great classical masters.  You can listen in :  http://www.christianchurchradio.com.  Give it a try.  Your visit is much appreciated since visitor count is important on Internet Websites.  Thanks for your interest and your help.

NATO And Goebbels Are Married!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110414/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_libya

Josef Goebels was the Hitler propaganda chief who is reported to have said that if you tell the people a lie often enough, they will believe it.  Surprisingly, NATO doesn’t even attempt to disguise their lies about the blatant aggression they are waging against the government of Libya.  Lets highlight a few items in the news article available here:

1. Third line, “…the same day that NATO airstrikes shock the city.”  The city is Tripoli, and it is the capitol of Libya.  It is not a military target, it poses no threat to the USA, it is heavily populated by civilians. Yet, it is very possible that since the USA flies 35% of the of the attacks, that we are involved in a civilian killing spree that should be prosecuted before the War Crimes Tribunal at the Hague.

2. Fourth paragraph, “In the capitol of Tripoli several large explosions were heard…” these would the bomb explosions from the attack war planes of the USA and NATO as they ruthlessly attack the army of the government of Tripoli and also the buildings of the capitol itself.  That is the same as the terrorists who attacked the world trade tower, the pentagon and would have gotten to the US Capitol building. Can we really say it is different?

3. Paragraph seven, “…when large anti government protests escalated into civil war…” Is the USA and the NATO military alliance in the business of direct interference in the internal affairs of a sovereign State as regards its’ civil war?

4. Paragraph ten, amazingly the reporter has very few details about who was killed, whether rebel or government or civilian- has no names but does know that two of them were aged 75 and 80….any more spin?

5. paragraph 13, ” Shelling your own people is unacceptable…This is a violation of human rights.”  The USA shelled the South in our Civil war.  The British shelled its own people in the Cromwellian civil war.  The French shelled it own people in the revolution of 1848.

6.  paragraph 20, “The allies again resolved to enforce a U.N. arms embargo, protect civilians acting to push Gadhafi forces out of cities they have entered, and get in humanitarian aid.”   This is the stated mandate but this article indicated that the NATO and USA forces are criminally exceeding that UN mandate.  How? Because NATO sides with the rebels, seeks to destroy the Libyan g0vernment’s ability to function and has repeatedly stated that it will attack government military personnel in order to effect regime chance through the ouster of Gaddafi. Even though Hilary says regime shance is not the point, President Obama says Gaddafi must go.  Well, folks you really are a liar if you want it both ways.  Maybe a cheater as well. Definitely a phony.

7. paragraph 27, states that the rebel forces will accept no peace initiatives, no truce, no compromise.  Well, well, well, How in the world could anyone claim to negotiate when on the first hand they are losing the battle, and on the second hand their conclusions are already predetermined.  That is not negotiation and I think that no American citizen or businessman or politician would accept the phony theatrics of negotiations when their own demise is the only acceptable result.

8. In previously posted opinions  I set out what this lone citizen writer would do if he were in charge of the fiasco.

00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll’llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

Abandon Libyan Rebels

A month ago the governments of the world were dealing with Libyan Leader Gaddafi.

The idea was to legitimate the government there, include Libya inside the world community, enlist their aid in fighting terrorism and gradually ease the Libyan government toward more democracy.  It seemed to be working.

What Happened?  French President Sarkozy was sinking in public opinion polls and so was President Obama.  So they resolved to start a nice little war against mostly rural Libya and when it was won they could portray themselves a world leaders.

So the boys chose what seemed an easy target and without any provocation from Libya they went to the UN, to get  a resolution to use any and all force needed to defend civilians from Libyan government attack.  What nobody knew at the time was that the French British and USA leaders intended to include protection of the Libyan rebel forces under the category of civilian while casting the Libyan army as the mercenary forces of Colonel Gaddafi. So for the past several weeks, under the ruse of a so-called “no fly zone” the USA and NATO forces have launched a merciless air WAR against the Libyan government ground forces, destroying their armaments and ground vehicles intending to make it impossible for the Libyan government to defend it against an armed rebellion, and thereby guarantee the victory of the insurrectionists against the Libyan Army.

The result> defeat for America.

Is Sean Hannity the Only True Conservative?

Listening to Mark Levin, Bill O’Reilly and Sean Hannity today, I wondered if Sean is the only true conservative left?  I have great respect for Mark Levin.  He truly is the “Great One”  but his anger over the present budget deal threatens to side line him because he is focusing on a short term goal, the 100 billion. I  understand Mark’s position but I disagree.  The present budget is like this:  A person is about to cross the street.  Another person on the corner keeps shouting that he should not cross.  But a third person behind the first tells him it is okay.  So the person crosses and gets hit by a bus.  The person who said that it was okay simply shrugs and moves away.  But the one who shouted that he should not cross tries his best to revive him, but fails and is blamed by everyone for not being able to save the man who crossed the street.  It is the President who is supposed to propose the annual budget to Congress in a timely manner.  Obama did not.  The Democrat Congress under Pelosi and Reid did not.  The newly elected Republicans have tried to save the doomed budget process for fiscal 2011 but are failing.  They are doing their best and should not be blamed for Obama’s negligence and failure.  Like Mr. Levin, who is blaming the Republicans, Mr. O’Reilly is also blaming them.  But unlike Mark Levin, Bill O’Relly is revealing himself to be a fan and supporter of President Obama.  Daily in the No pin Zone, O’Reilly spins the news and the interviews, casting them in favor of Obama and against the Republicans.  Soon, O’Reilly will join the drones and blame everything on President George W. Bush. This leave Sean Hannity.  He is consistent in his critique of the Obama Administration and clearly supports Republicans, the Tea party movement and Conservatives.  But Sean too, is often very critical of the Republicans.  This writer agrees that the Present Budget deal is disappointing but the bigger and more important fight is the Ryan proposal for 2012 and the out years with a projection of 6 trillion in savings.  The pundits and talk show hosts, the bloggers and the commentators must unite and remain united NO MATTER WHAT because the Democrat response to the Ryan proposal will be vicious. There can no divisions, no Scott Brown, Olympia Snow Republicans who side with and vote for Democrat counter proposals.